Episode 21: Was I Out Of Line?

Speaker 1: 0:00
Assalamu alaikum, I’m Hiba. And I’m Zaid, you’re listening to Diary of a Matchmaker.

Speaker 2: 0:05
A podcast that will take you into our world as matchmakers.

Speaker 1: 0:09
We’ll share our experiences and offer advice for the single Muslim.

Speaker 2: 0:12
So let’s dive in. Bismillah, assalamu alaikum everyone, welcome to another episode. My name is Zaid and on the other mic is my wife and co-host Hiba.

Speaker 2: 0:22
Assalamu alaikum is Zaid, and on the other mic is my wife and co-host, hiba Assalamualaikum. So, alhamdulillah, we’ve been doing festivals and workshops for a few years now, especially in our first two years. I would say we did a lot of festivals, and it was always a festival that we would come across interesting people. We’d have our very interesting moments and situations, whether it’s people making ridiculous requests and insults, but there was one that particularly stood out for us me especially because I ended up making a blog about it and it happened in london.

Speaker 2: 1:05
We uh rented a booth and, uh, we it was, I believe, a two or two and a half day event and um, so we hung our banner, we put our table out and, um, as we’ve always done, we would ask people walking by do you know anybody that’s looking to get married? And so a few hours went by and then this one couple, uh, with their children, was walking by, and so I looked at the husband. I said do you know anybody that’s looking to get married? And he looked back with a smirk on his face and he said do you help with a second wife? And he looked back with a smirk on his face and he said do you help with a second wife, and keep in mind at this point I had dealt with this insulting question for so long and I was so annoyed and frustrated with this question that at this point I wasn’t ready to let it go Like I wanted to say something that would not necessarily be something pleasant.

Speaker 1: 2:11
It’s like an impulse when you ask someone you know somebody looking to get married, it’s like the first impulse to ask about a second wife.

Speaker 2: 2:18
I don’t understand it.

Speaker 1: 2:20
Is it a joke? Or is it just being uncomfortable or trying to be funny?

Speaker 2: 2:26
It feels like people just have this itch, like this is the opportunity to make a joke about a second wife.

Speaker 1: 2:32
I can’t talk about it with my wife for serious, so at least I can joke about it, yeah.

Speaker 2: 2:38
So then I looked at the husband and I said why is your first wife not enough? Now, I admit it’s not the most appropriate response, but I said what I said and um, and then he I vaguely recall him saying no, and uh, then I looked at the wife and and I said to her I think you need a better husband. And that’s when I could see the look and color on the husband’s face change, because now I just attacked this man’s honor, right. So he came back and he said what do you have against the second wife? You know it’s part of the sunnah. You’ve adopted this feminist mentality. You think you’re better than everyone. You know that. And he started making comments about the sunnah and he it was like this long khutbah.

Speaker 2: 3:29
The guys just like wouldn’t stop you’ve been brainwashed, you’ve been brainwashed and uh, and I said, brother, do you know how the quran and sunnah talks about a second, a second wife? The quran actually refers to it as a strong covenant about marriage in general.

Speaker 2: 3:46
In marriage about marriage in general right, not just a second wife, but about marriage in general. So it’s not a laughing matter. So he kept going and going and um, it got to the point where, uh, security had to get involved and, um, the wife ended up pushing the stroller out of frustration. And at some point I looked at the husband and I said brother, were you sincerely asking about a second wife or were you making a joke? A few times he avoided answering that question. I kept asking him and I said honestly, tell me, because if you were sincerely asking me, I would have apologized right then and there. And I said I would have sincerely told him. Sorry, we can’t help you, but inshallah, wish you the best Right. But he finally admitted that he was making a joke and I said brother, you’re insulting your wife and yourself in front of your children and this isn’t the right way to conduct yourself in front of your family you know, you jammed him in a corner.

Speaker 1: 4:47
Because when you ask him that question, because if he said yes, I’m serious, then this is like his wife is standing next to him and he’s telling a stranger I’m looking for a second wife. And if he said no, I was joking, then he just made a fool of him out of himself.

Speaker 2: 5:03
So yeah, I didn’t think about that so smart well, I guess, without knowing it, I made a smart move. But alhamdulillah like checkmate yeah, um. So my intention wasn’t to insult the husband or cause marital conflict or anything like that, but I’m human and uh, this, this business is, is our child. We’ve invested so much into it, so naturally I’m gonna get upset and frustrated when people keep insulting it.

Speaker 1: 5:32
Um and so they’re also insulting themselves. They’re insulting their wives in public like imagine if it was the other way around. Let’s say, like in islam, a woman could have more than one husband, just hypothetically. How? Would a man take it if his wife in public asks, oh, do you help with the second husband? Like either he would hit her or flip, or like but we’ve had situations like that right. No, but wives say oh, can you find a second wife for him?

Speaker 2: 6:01
Oh, right, right, right. What if she’s saying right yeah, I get what you’re saying?

Speaker 1: 6:06
So insensitive.

Speaker 2: 6:09
I don’t understand Muslims and you know. The thing is we’ve talked about this before in that episode the downside of working with Muslims. You don’t see this kind of behavior with non-Muslims.

Speaker 1: 6:18
Yeah, well, they don’t have second hearts, Right?

Speaker 2: 6:20
but I’m talking about the general idea of insulting their wife.

Speaker 1: 6:25
Insulting your spouse.

Speaker 2: 6:25
Insulting your spouse in public yeah yeah, right, or making a joke like that in public. I mean, alhamdulillah, we’ve been fortunate enough to work with Muslims and non-Muslims and the differences are just so clear. So, going back to the story, as I said, the security got involved. Eventually we found out that the wife refused to leave because she was so upset, and it was something that stuck with us for a very long time and it cemented our feelings and our frustrations in regards to working with Muslims. And it wasn’t the first time that, like.

Speaker 2: 7:12
I’ve dealt with this situation personally with a fellow khatib in my community, right Right when I was talking to the brother and we were trying to promote our workshop, and said you know, this is a serious problem in the community and that Muslims need help finding suitable spouses. And right off the bat he cut me off and he said oh, do you help with a second wife? Or what about a girlfriend? And he kept going and finally he got the impression that I was serious and then he had a mature conversation with me. So it’s whether it’s khatibs or your average muslim is diseases everywhere.

Speaker 1: 7:51
Everybody’s apparently been infected with a second wife disease you know somebody who’s serious about getting a second wife, they wouldn’t make a joke out of it, like it would be a serious topic. Because like you would go probably ask the imam, ask somebody in the community, you would be so careful about it to to present the topic to your wife. Like you wouldn’t joke about it like this no, no, you wouldn’t well you know, all this time we’ve never had a situation where the man was actually really looking for a second wife.

Speaker 2: 8:26
It’s always just jokes and sometimes, now that I think about it, you’re right.

Speaker 1: 8:30
No, not even once yeah and uh, sometimes, like you said, it’s wives making fun. They come with their husbands. Oh, can you find a second wife for him? I?

Speaker 2: 8:40
need to take a break or something like that and they laugh while they’re saying yeah like you’re admitting that you’re not enough or that you’re sick of your husband yeah, I remember calling out a lady on that once and she just got upset and walked away um yeah, I think it happened at um.

Speaker 1: 8:57
I think it was rip fest you know what I think next time we do a festival, we should like put another banner under our big banner no second wives.

Speaker 2: 9:08
Maybe that will attract people.

Speaker 1: 9:10
Remember, in Pakistan you saw this restaurant.

Speaker 2: 9:13
Oh yeah, what is it called Second wife restaurant?

Speaker 1: 9:16
See, even like a business makes fun out of it. It’s like a universal joke.

Speaker 2: 9:21
Yeah, unfortunately. So what does the Quran and Sunnah say about this matter? What can you add about this?

Speaker 1: 9:30
So I think every Muslim knows that we are like as Muslims. A man is allowed to have up to four wives, right, but this is what we say and then we stop there. We don’t talk about the responsibilities that come with it, the the heavy load that comes with that.

Speaker 1: 9:47
If you don’t have the means, the financial means, to actually have more than wife and treat them justly, then you’re doing zulm to them right so you have to be fair, not just in terms of how much you spend on each wife, even how much time you spend with each wife, like up to the minute. You have to be fair if you go to your first wife wearing perfume, you have to go to your second wife wearing perfume.

Speaker 1: 10:14
You there’s so much responsibilities that come with it and then, not to mention that you could end up having children from more than one wife, and, unfortunately, muslims when they think about taking a second wife or a third wife they don’t think about all of that at all.

Speaker 2: 10:33
It’s just about satisfying their needs. Exactly, yeah, exactly. And to add to that, you know you’re talking about doing justice to the wives, but when you think about the West west, how can you do justice to poor wives when it’s illegal?

Speaker 1: 10:46
right.

Speaker 2: 10:47
So we’re not faqis and we’re not going to say it’s haram, you know, marrying a second wife living in the west, but, putting things into context, you cannot do justice to more than one wife if the law of the land says that it’s illegal so what people do is the first marriage will be registered and then the second or third or fourth.

Speaker 1: 11:08
It would wouldn’t be, it would just be, but the problem with that I understand how it works, but I’m just saying legal.

Speaker 2: 11:13
You cannot do justice if one one of the four marriages isn’t recognized by the law of the land. Exactly what, if something would happen to you, right, yeah?

Speaker 1: 11:22
then your second wife would end up I don’t know on the street or with nothing. Her child will be considered a bastard, I guess.

Speaker 2: 11:32
Right so that probably it’s not a very wise, uh thing to do yeah, a lot of scholars say you know um object to marry more than one wife in the West.

Speaker 1: 11:46
You know, in the East, in the Middle East, some men threaten their wives with a second wife. Some threaten just like they’re not serious, but they want to provoke their wives. So, yeah, this is so low.

Speaker 2: 12:01
Yeah, it is pretty low.

Speaker 1: 12:02
Yeah.

Speaker 2: 12:05
We don’t like to give marriage advice. First of all, we’ve only been married a few years, so we try to stay away from that because we can’t do justice to the topic. But, speaking as matchmakers and somebody who deals with this incessant question, just understand that it’s illegal here and that if you are considering a second wife, that realistically speaking, you won’t be able to do justice to more than one wife because the law of the land contradicts our sharia. And if you feel like you can do justice, then you’re going to have to move to a Muslim country where it is allowed and you can freely honor the rights of more than one wife, right?

Speaker 1: 12:54
is that fair to say? Yeah, I would say the same honestly, guys. Like if you have a good wife, you’re happy with her, you’re happy with your children. You don’t have, like your wife doesn’t have any problem health problems that prevent her from fulfilling her duties as a wife, you don’t need that. Then why add? Why add problems? Why add burdens and responsibilities and something that’s gonna just make your life less comfortable? Just like be happy with what allah gave you, the prophet. He did have he did have more than one wife, of course, because he was the Prophet, but when he was married to Khadija, he didn’t marry anyone else For all their time together. He only married her Because he was happy with her. He didn’t need anyone.

Speaker 2: 13:43
His multiple marriages served lessons for us.

Speaker 1: 13:48
His multiple marriages happened, like their amr from Allah, command from Allah, of course.

Speaker 2: 13:53
And they had political reasons, social reasons and there were lessons to learn from those marriages for us, Like Mashallah, when Aisha became a muftiha right One of the first ones and much of our sunnah is preserved because of his wives exactly um so that’s a topic for for another day.

Speaker 1: 14:14
But men who are able to be just to more than one wife are very few, yeah. So if you’re not sure you can be one of them, then advice is avoid it and just be fulfilled and happy with your wife yeah, may allah grant, uh all of you guys who are married um peace and comfort in your marriages, and may allah grant everyone who’s looking to get married, grant them a good spouse I mean, I mean, um, so what do you guys think of how I reacted to that guy?

Speaker 2: 14:50
I’d love to get your feedback. Let me know, if I was a jerk or if you would do something like that if you were in my situation. Obviously, I can’t go back in time and change what I did, but yeah, let me know if I was out of line or not. And feel free to leave a comment Till next time.

Speaker 1: 15:09
Assalamu alaikum.