Episode 9: Should Parents be Involved?

Speaker 1: 0:00
Assalamu alaikum, I’m Hiba. And I’m Zaid, you’re listening to Diary of a Matchmaker.

Speaker 2: 0:05
A podcast that will take you into our world as matchmakers.

Speaker 1: 0:09
We’ll share our experiences and offer advice for the single Muslim.

Speaker 2: 0:12
So let’s dive in. Bismillah, assalamu alaikum everyone, welcome to another episode of Diary of a Matchmaker. My name is Zaid and on the other mic is my wife and co-host, hiba.

Speaker 1: 0:26
And that’s me Assalamualaikum.

Speaker 2: 0:28
Parental involvement. That is a very sensitive topic when it comes to matchmaking. Parents often want to know how much do we involve them in the matchmaking process? Do we exclude them? Do we involve them? Do we get their input? All of those things come up. But when we reflect back upon our process and when we were first talking quote unquote going through the courting phase, heba, how much did you involve your parents?

Speaker 1: 1:01
They were involved and they weren’t involved at the same time. How? So involve your parents. They were involved and they weren’t involved at the same time. How so? So they knew from the get-go that I came across? Uh hod, I’m seeking marriage through this website, um hod, by the way, is half dean half dean.

Speaker 1: 1:17
Um salam to baba ali, if you’re listening, we love you. And uh, what else? Oh yeah. So they knew that I was using hod and they also knew that I was talking to you and they didn’t know too much about you. I just gave them um the basics and I told them that we’re talking to see if we’re actually compatible for each other. Um, after, like, when things got serious and we actually saw how compatible we were and we want to move forward, then I told them more about you, told them about you, about your family, why I think we’re compatible, what are our expectations for the future, and all of that. And, of course, they share their input, their concerns, their support, all of that. And after that, of course, they met you on Skype and talked to you on all of that.

Speaker 2: 2:13
So, just to be clear, you never excluded your parents Like you jumped on a matchmaking platform but you said mom, dad, I’m using this service, but I’ll involve you if I do find a match or when I do find.

Speaker 1: 2:26
Yeah, I didn’t I didn’t hide anything from them because I believe anything that starts wrong and starts in secrecy and behind closed doors and all of that. There’s no barakah in it, right? And also because, like when I started, when we started talking, I was almost 30 actually. No, I was a few months over 30 and like by this age you’re an adult, you’re like more independently, like you’re not 18, right but also, tad, you had that relationship with your parents where they trusted you, they knew you’re an independent person alhamdulillah.

Speaker 1: 2:59
So I’ve been blessed and still I am to have parents who are supportive, open-minded, and they brought us up, me and my sister, to be like free thinkers, independent and know how to lead their own life right right.

Speaker 2: 3:16
And to add to that and this is something that I saw a lot on matrimonial websites which is girls making a profile and then they say mom, my wally is checking this inbox, or my bro, or uh, a brother is making a profile on behalf of his sister, saying I’m making this on behalf of fatima. Um, if you’re interested, please message me, but you didn’t do anything like that. Right, it’s not like your mama and baba were checking your inbox and like filtering I don’t think they wanted to be that involved.

Speaker 1: 3:43
Like this is your headache. You know how to make your own decisions. We’re going to meet this person, interview him. If we see red flags, things we don’t like of course we’re going to address it. But, by the way, did you know that guys also do the same but differently? So I saw some profiles where it’s actually the mother or the sister who created the account and she’s like my son is a doctor and like he’s busy and all of that. If you want to connect with him like it has to go through the mother.

Speaker 2: 4:16
Right, right, because apparently the son is too busy to make time for marriage.

Speaker 1: 4:21
Apparently, apparently.

Speaker 2: 4:23
So I mean, my involvement with parents was a bit different because, being a guy, there’s a little bit more flexibility, there’s not that much kind of I guess insecurity right, I guess insecurity is the wrong word, but fear. So when I was searching, my parents knew from the beginning that I was on different apps. I was searching. My parents knew from the beginning that I was on different apps matrimony websites in the beginning, and my journey spanned about nine years. So towards the end, my mom was just anxious to just get me out of the apartment, find someone and start my own life.

Speaker 2: 5:09
So my parents were pretty trusting of of me and and my search and, um, when I eventually told him that, hey, I met somebody online, my mom of course had her reservations and I told you this story before and it’s kind of funny. When I first told her, hey, I met a girl all the way in jordan. Um, she’s studying over there but she’s planning on relocating here she thought. My mom thought and I kid you not that, uh, he was trying to scam me I think she thought I was isis.

Speaker 1: 5:33
I was amongst isis because I’ve traveled a lot, and now I think so I remember something like that, yeah so my mom had her fears.

Speaker 2: 5:42
My dad kind of he’s like are you seriously going to just meet someone, um, and then have have your nikah within just a few days after that? I said, yeah, I feel pretty strongly about this. So my parents had their fears, your parents had their fears. Well, alhamdulillah they, your parents, trusted us right and and they knew that we were responsible, uh, adults, and that we were met and we were asking each other the right questions and assessing compatibility and doing all of those things. Yeah, so Alhamdulillah, it worked out.

Speaker 1: 6:11
Yeah, but I honestly believe the age plays a big role in this, like if there is a girl who is 18, 19.

Speaker 2: 6:18
Yes.

Speaker 1: 6:19
And she’s talking to a guy, she still doesn’t.

Speaker 2: 6:22
Of course she’s an adult, but there is a difference between a 19 and a 30 year old right in terms of life experience, in terms of just knowing how to assess, not getting emotionally attached, all of that which brings me to the, the one story of uh, the 19 year old girl that signed up with us yes and it’s amazing, when she signed up with us, she was very mature, she was understanding.

Speaker 2: 6:46
I think her father was on the discovery call with her too, um, and the father was very supportive and he was, of course, a bit nervous that you know. My 19 year old is considering marriage, um, but we were very impressed at um, the kind of communication she was having with her parents, how clear she was about her expectations, about her goals and what she wanted in a spouse, and so we took her on and, alhamdulillah, we were able to get her matched and she had her nikah just last summer.

Speaker 1: 7:12
The amount of maturity she carries. Mashallah.

Speaker 2: 7:15
Yeah, mashallah. So that brings me to our service. Do we exclude parents from our service? Do we involve parents from our service? Do we involve parents in our service? How does our service work?

Speaker 1: 7:30
kind of balance that so if you ask parents, they’re gonna say yes, we exclude them, we don’t like to work with them, all of that but, honestly. In our in all honesty, we don’t exclude them from the process, but we don’t directly work with them. So what we do is we work directly with the client and we encourage them to involve their parents, whether they’re a guy or a girl, consult with them all. All of that throughout all the stages of the matching process, right.

Speaker 2: 7:59
Yeah.

Speaker 1: 8:00
But we don’t directly work with the parents.

Speaker 2: 8:02
Why.

Speaker 1: 8:03
Because, first of all, we’re trying to get to know the person. Their preferences, their expectations, their personality, build an entire profile of them. And when parents get involved, involved, things get a little bit sticky because they impose whatever they think is right, whatever their preferences are their generational expectations.

Speaker 2: 8:26
Yeah, exactly, and uh, tied to that it’s um, we just don’t have the, the kind of manpower to be able to deal with parents also.

Speaker 1: 8:36
This is the team.

Speaker 2: 8:37
This is the team right, Like just you and I. So we can’t create another profile for parents, try to assess their expectations, their needs and then try to compare that with their son or daughter. It’s just too much for us. So our service is matchmaking for the busy Muslim. It’s mainly geared towards professionals. So the expectation is that we are taking that the people we’re working with are mature, working individuals who have some sense of what they want in a spouse, who have initiated that conversation with their parents, and that they have some level of understanding with their parents as to what a have some level of understanding with their parents as to what a compatible spouse looks like.

Speaker 1: 9:18
And many times the expectations of the client look very different from the expectations of their parents. I mean, just recently we interviewed this guy, mashallah. He’s successful and independent and all of that, but he said that his parents expect him to move in with his new wife and live with the in-laws right, and he wants a completely different thing.

Speaker 2: 9:43
Yeah, and when we brought that up to him because it looked like a contradiction on his form and he said that he doesn’t want to get into a fight with his parents from the beginning, but at the same time, he made it clear that he’s the one taking the reins on this, that it’s his decision ultimately and that when the time is right, he’ll have that difficult conversation with his parents. Our service itself, like you said, it’s dedicated towards understanding the client’s needs. We’re very strict about not allowing parents to attend the double date and we put it very clearly on the double date invitation that parents, guardians, children, nobody else is allowed to come to the double date, and the reason for that is because it’s a very sensitive and important time for the clients to get to know one another.

Speaker 1: 10:35
So just in case somebody is just tuning in here for the first time, can you explain briefly what is a double date?

Speaker 2: 10:42
So the double date is the final step of our service. It’s when we’ve introduced the matches. When I say introduced, we’ve shown pictures of the matches to each other, we’ve shared some information about their values and things like that, and both clients have said yes, we want to move forward for an in-person meeting.

Speaker 2: 11:01
so when I say double date, I mean an in-person meeting not virtual or virtual, um, and what it means is that hiba and I are there with the clients, in person or virtual, and we’re facilitating the introductions. So when I say that parents are not allowed to be there, the reason for that is because that time is dedicated for the clients to get to know one another, to ask the important questions, to assess values, to assess goals, expectations, things like that. And if mom and dad are hovering over them, they can’t be vulnerable, right? They can’t be vulnerable, right, they can’t be open to one another, vulnerable in a good way, vulnerable in a good way and, uh, those those important questions and answers won’t really come out right right and and so I remember we even this is kind of sidetracked, but we even considered the idea of creating a new package where we meet parents and stuff too.

Speaker 1: 11:54
Yeah, like Sima, aunty.

Speaker 2: 11:56
Like Sima Aunty. But yeah, that’s in a nutshell how our service works and why it works that way. We want our clients to reap the rewards of their work. We don’t even carry their hand all the way to the marriage date, because we want them to involve their parents after the double date too.

Speaker 2: 12:11
Right the marriage date because we want them to involve their parents after the double date too, right, um, and explain to their parents why they think that such and such person is compatible and pave that way, uh, for for their match to come over, meet the family and and do all that like. So we introduced uh two clients last year um and we’re going to change their names intentionally for the sake of privacy and we shared um their pictures to one another on a video call.

Speaker 2: 12:36
They were very happy information, not just pictures information and pictures and they were very happy and they wanted to move forward. So we scheduled an in-person date and we were very excited too, because actually difficult to find matches for for these two specifically um and uh. So we did the in-person date, alhamdulillah went very well. We, we used our custom design games and we followed up with them after the double date and they both said uh, yes, that they want to move forward. So they paid the fee and um, and our service ended at that point and and so sometimes, just out of curiosity, we follow up with our clients and check in and say how did things go? Are things moving along? And we were very shocked. And what did we learn from Ali?

Speaker 1: 13:22
So Ali said that he visited the girl and her family and just after one meeting, the girl said no, it’s not going to work out. And why is that?

Speaker 2: 13:32
Because apparently, her parents’ expectations were very different from hers and she didn’t know how to ask the questions, how to navigate this whole process of what she wants and what her parents want, and she just dumped the whole responsibility on her parents right and he didn’t meet their expectations yeah, and not only that, but but yeah, like you said, she didn’t know what questions to ask, how to ask the the right questions, how to assess compatibility, and, uh, there wasn’t much legwork happening on her end, and this is something that I’ve seen in my personal journey trying to get married.

Speaker 1: 14:15
So, before you talk about your journey in this case, even though they were very, very compatible and the guy made a huge sacrifice when he said yes, because she had a specific circumstance, the reason it didn’t work out we can share that circumstance.

Speaker 2: 14:30
Because she was divorced right?

Speaker 1: 14:31
Yes, yeah, and she was divorced, right, yeah, and she was, I think, older than him slightly older than him but he saw compatibility and all of that and he said yes. And she said yes because she saw the compatibility. The reason it didn’t work out because when he met her parents they didn’t like that. He was an entrepreneur and they wanted a doctor. We were very saddened to know that it just fell apart because of something she couldn’t communicate to her parents.

Speaker 2: 14:54
Right and his time ended up getting wasted, as well as his money. And this is a pattern that I’ve seen a lot of in my journey trying to get married, which is girls are oftentimes dump the responsibility on their parents when it comes to assessing compatibility right, when it comes to asking the right questions, when it comes to addressing goals, expectations, things like that. They say mom and dad, you know what’s best for me. You meet the guy and you figure it out. Now I understand and this is sometimes what I hear from educated people and scholars that if a guy approaches you and shows interest in you for the purpose of marriage, then your first response should be go speak to my wali. Now, as a girl, how do you feel about taking that path?

Speaker 1: 15:49
I feel it is important, of course, to speak to the wali, because girls could easily get emotionally attached before assessing logically especially if she’s young. But I would say if we’re talking about a mature adult, she has that open communication with her parents. There’s a trust and all of that. Then you tell your parents her parents, there’s a trust and all of that. Then you tell your parents there’s a guy who’s showed interest in me. He’s interested in marrying me, not dating, and all of that.

Speaker 2: 16:20
Right, he’s someone I’m attracted to.

Speaker 1: 16:21
He’s someone who carries my goals.

Speaker 2: 16:23
Exactly my values, my expectations. We’re on the same page.

Speaker 1: 16:27
We’re on the same page. I would like to get to know him and assess the compatibility level and then introduce him to you right.

Speaker 2: 16:36
So that’s very much what you did with me right when you you are an hod, you saw my profile, you, you saw some compatibility. You reached out to me and your parents knew you were using this platform. My parents knew I was searching and we assess compatibility and when you felt like there was something here that we can build upon for the purpose of marriage, then you contacted your parents right, so it wasn’t the other way around.

Speaker 1: 17:00
So, alhamdulillah, it worked out for us because it was a virtual setting, it was less complex. But we want to leave you guys with this question If this is an in-person setting, there’s a guy showing interest in this girl. Maybe they go to the same university, they work together, whatever should the girl say, hey, go speak to my wally, or should she take initiative? How do you think this scenario would play out?

Speaker 2: 17:23
right and when we say initiative, should we, should she assess compatibility, assess common values and interests and then take the step to speaking to her parents and say I’d like you to meet this guy. What should happen first? I’d like to leave that with you, guys.

Speaker 1: 17:39
Because we don’t have an answer.

Speaker 2: 17:40
Because we don’t have an answer. We’ve been going back and forth about this for a few days now. But yeah, let us know in the comment section, and until next time.

Speaker 1: 17:49
Yeah, assalamu, alaikum Ass.